Buying Land: The Nominees Witch Hunt (2)

February 1 2010 Categories: Land Ownership, Thailand Property 2 comments

One of the reasons I’m calling the nominee scrutiny a “Witch Hunt” is because one of the declared target of said inquiry will be the “Thai wife”. Yes, the Thai wife, not the Thai Spouse. There is gender discrimination in this whole Thai wife business that i do not like at all.

The Nominee Chromosome

While would authorities assume that Thai wife’s are more prone to become nominees than Thai husbands of foreign women?

Is there a Nominee Chromosome that would be specific to the feminine gender that I’m not aware off?

I have been living in Thailand for 12 years now. I have 20 employees out of which 15 are women and 5 are guys. Did I hire women because I will paid them less than I would pay their male counterpart as this is the case in western countries.

Not at all. I hire women, because Thai women are reliable. You can trust them to do the job and mostly to do it well. Sorry guys but you are not as reliable and as efficient as your female counterparts and I’m not the only one saying so.

The guys of ABAC which are doing survey about everything should give a try to this one. The results would be very painful for the Thai male gender.

Back to the subject of this post; firstly I don’t see why women would be more prone to become nominees that their male counterpart; secondly and assuming that there is indeed a nominee chromosome that affect the female gender I don’t see why only married women should be targeted? It is simply unfair.

If I was a US citizen I would definitively swing the “Democrat” way but for one issue where I would agree with Republicans. Too much state intervention is bad.

Is the Relation between Husband and Wife any Government Business?

I do not think that it should be any government business of defining anybody’s relationships and especially what happen between a husband and his wife. For that matter, the interesting thing is that Thailand is about to define itself as a country where interracial married couple are economically discriminated.

Thinks about it for one minute, you are a western guy, you married a Thai women, started a family (there is already a baby or one on the way). You see a nice piece of land on which you would like to build a house for the family.

As a foreigner, you know that you cannot buy land freehold for residential purpose. So the alternatives for you are the leasehold or the right of superficies. Both limited to 30 years with a renewal period. As a matter of fact in most cases the rent for 30 years is the same than the price to actually purchase the land.

What will then do any husband with a minimum of common sense? Does paying a rent to someone you don’t know develop the land from someone you don’t know make any sense when you could instead help your wife to purchase the land and then rent it out from her.

Does it make more sense to make people you do not know richer or to built the family wealth?

This is why most foreign husbands who have married Thai women purchase property under their name and then lease them back from them.

Because at least the money spend stays inside the family. The day the foreign husband died his wife and kids will have property. If the foreign husband had instead leased the land from a third party they would have nothing left. A foreign husband that helps his wife to purchase a land does nothing more and nothing less than fulfilling his duties as a husband.

Husband and Wife shall Support each other in Life

After all Section 1461 of the Thai Commercial and Civil Code stipulates that: “Husband and wife shall maintain and support each other according to his or her ability and condition in life”.

If a husband is of a better condition in life than his wife should his first duty not be to improve his wife condition?

Sin Suan Tua Vs Nominee Status

Furthermore, it does not make sense.

Indeed for a foreign husband to use his wife as a “nominee” to purchase a land because at the time of the purchase the foreign husband and his Thai spouse will have to sign in front of the officer at the land department a Letter of Confirmation to be signed by the husband of a Thai wife prior to the purchase of land by the Thai wife.

Please see the whole form in my post Buying Land: The Thai spouse right to own land freehold. The purpose of this form is to stipulate that the money used by the Thai spouse to purchase the land is wholly Sin Suan Tua or the personal property of Mr./Mrs (at least the form is gender neutral) the Thai spouse.

What does Sin Suan Tua means: It is either property: (1) belonging to either spouse before marriage, or (2) property for personal use such as clothing or tools of trade; or property acquired during marriage by way of inheritance or gifts; or (4) khongman otherwise known as an engagement gift.

If the “Sin Suan Tua” is sold or destroyed or even exchanged, the proceeds and any new property purchased with the money will then also be “Sin Suan Tua”.

Furthermore each spouse is the manager of his or her own “Sin Suan Tua”.

Finally, if and when the couple divorce all marital property (sin somros) will be divided equally but personal property (sin suan tua) will remain owned by the individual to whom it initially belonged.

In this respect the whole wife nominee land owner does not make sense.

How could a foreign husband who has officially acknowledged in written in front of a government officer that the land purchased is Sin Suan Tua of his Thai wife and by doing so acknowledged that she is the manager of it, the economic and legal owner of it be at the same time deemed to be using his spouse as a nominee?

The fact that the money that was used by the Thai wife to purchase the land originally came from the foreign husband does not mean that the declaration made by the spouses at the land department that the money used to purchase the land was Sin Suan Tua of the Thai spouse was a lie.

Indeed, the Sin Suan Tua legal definition includes property acquired during the marriage as a gift. It would suffice that the husband gifted the money to his wife to purchase the land to make it ok.

As I was saying in my previous post, I’m the first to acknowledge that there is a problem and that there are many foreign citizens who have purchased land by way that may be deemed as circumventing Thai law. I’m also the first to acknowledge that this situations as to be solved one day.

But I don’t believe that a public trials of Thai women that have married foreign citizens and have purchased land while married is the right way to solve this issue. Foreign husband or foreign spouse has the same duty than Thai husband or Thai spouse to improve the condition of their family, they should be let fulfill their duty in peace.

Note: This post is an excerpt of Rene Philippe Dubout next book: “How to Invest Safely Into Thailand” to be published in January 2010

About the Author:

The author Rene-Philippe DUBOUT is a lawyer since 1990 when he was admitted to Geneva bar (Switzerland). He practiced as a litigator there for 10 years until he moved to Thailand in 1999. In 2002 he founded with a group of Thai lawyers Rene Philippe & Partners Ltd a local law firm that specialized in Cross Borders Investments and Real Estate. He has been lecturing in several Thai Universities and a speaker to numerous conferences and seminars. He is the author of a must read book:”How to Purchase Real Estate Offshore Safely: The Case of Thailand”.

http//:www.renephilippe.com

Originally posted 2009-10-29 02:14:36.

2 Responses to “Buying Land: The Nominees Witch Hunt (2)”

Robin Hill says:

29/10/2009 at 9:04 am

Hi Rene, this is a very interesting post that foreigners should read, also because it touches upon a couple of areas that we as foreigners have to be careful about.
1. Anyone who has taken the time to read through the Thai Civil and Commercial Code will know that Thai law does not treat women the same as it treats men in some respects. In parts of … Read Morethe code women are treated as chattels and their fathers have some claim within the law to demand payment in return for their consent for their daughter to marry.
2. The present government seems to me to be on a mission to “back out” some of the law put in place by Thaksin, and one very important law was the right for a female with a foreign husband to own land. This recent move to look more closely at the “Thai wife” being used as a nominee is perhaps a first step in the direction of reversing this aspect of Thai law.

It is perhaps due, as you say, to the performance of women in the workplace that the men in power are so paranoid about losing control.
Rene-Philippe says:

30/10/2009 at 4:35 am

Thank Robin. As always your comments are to the point. I don’t think they are after women but after us. I actually like Thaksing but the first regulations of the land department were made during his area

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